Hung vs. Duggan
A student shares his thoughts on last week's column while another ponders the existence of God, the purpose of life, and spider webs.
Tone Haug '08, Senior Honors Student
Issue date: 12/11/07 Section: Perspectives
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Attendance was much higher than was expected at the event; over half of the audience was standing or sitting on the floor. While I was waiting for the speech to begin, I was wondering how Pham would deal with the challenging debate. Duggan has been a Jesuit and then a non-believer of God for nearly 40 years.. Pham hasn't been alive for 40 years. Students were the only people who attended the event other that the two professors and Joel Schneider, Residence Life Coordinator for the town homes. The students came from many different major backgrounds, but particularly Philosophy, Religious Studies, and Peace and Justice. Most students either read the promotion posters around the town homes, or heard about the debate from the two professors in their classes.
Both professors where asked to speak at this debate, but I believe they also wanted to speak at this event. Duggan said at the end of the night that he "was glad that so many students wanted to learn on a Thursday night even though no one had to be here." Pham agreed with Duggan's statement. Both professors have many years of graduate school education in religion and philosophy. Pham came to America from Viet Nam in his early teens with his family. Duggan and Pham went to undergraduate school at Regis, and also spent some of their time at St. Louis University for their graduate school. Academics and religion have been important in improving both of their lives. Pham and Duggan seemed poised to talk and debate the existence of God while sitting in two bar height chairs, only separated by a table.
Meier introduced each speaker and explained how the event was going to be arranged. Each speaker would describe their perspective, then a round of counter debating, and finally questions from the audience. Pham introduced himself and told of his educational background, offering a few points for his argument for God's existence. He said that literature, whether interpreted literally or morally, was proof that God was a part of people's lives. Next he stated that nearly all societies have some form of greater being responsible for judgment and the creation and movement of civilization. Lastly, people seek to fill an emptiness inside of them through God..
Duggan stood up and began an Irish folk song that sung about the Virgin Mary. He explained that religion was a great motivator for language and that his Irish heritage led him to believe in God and to join the Jesuits once he began at Regis University. Duggan explained his long history with religion and education and how his dissertation eventually got him forcefully removed from the Jesuits. Religion, in his mind, is now literature, not a redemptive truth that will lead to an eternal savior. He explained that religion is just another literature to him, like philosophy, psychology, or the sciences. Humans have progressed through stages of what will redeem people. First it was religion, then science, and now literature. People are looking for something redemptive in life and a purpose.
In the rebuttal portion, both focused on emptiness and the search for purpose. Many people are searching for a way to fill the emptiness in their lives; Pham claimed that this emptiness was from a lack of understanding God. Duggan agreed with the experience of emptiness, but that the search for purpose can be filled with literature, and the creation of new literature. Pham then asked if Duggan knew of Taoism and if he could believe it to be true. Duggan said he did, but he didn't play that game because he didn't understand it. Pham then made the point that just because someone doesn't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The debate between them didn't really get anywhere so they then opened the discussion to the audience.
Attendees listened intently through the debate and open questions period. God's existence was the main topic of the evening and the conversations stuck closely to this theme. The idea of God is an important theory to many people's lives. People give this as the reason they exist and the essence of their being. Others think it is not a truth, or they just don't care. I struggle with the idea of God, but I think it is an idea/reality that needs to be contemplated.
The questions were somewhat varied, but many were focused on how someone can think God exists or doesn't exist. I asked a couple of questions that deeply concern me, including "Where is hope. Hope for society and the growth and improvement(s) of society…to go to Jesuit ideals of Magis (more) or (better) and the ideal of cura personalis for a movement and forever." Also, "if the emptiness that people have for purpose is like a balloon or like a milk can, can it expand and decrease without losing shape and substance, or is there a limit that can be less than full and can this space over flow its container." In response to my first question, Pham said that both Religion and other factors give hope and that God and eternal life was the movement and the hope. Duggan said that this was true, but that the movement was our peers pushing us, rather than God. Duggan addressed my second question saying that the emptiness is not empty but a web of different ideas. I replied that spiders destroy their own webs and die in their own webs. Most people laughed at this and the question was dropped. I hope to take this question up further with Duggan later.
Attendees listened intently through the debate and open questions period. God's existence was the main topic of the evening and the conversations stuck closely to this theme. The idea of God is an important theory to many people's lives. People give this as the reason they exist and the essence of their being. Others think it is not a truth, or they just don't care. I struggle with the idea of God, but I think it is an idea/reality that needs to be contemplated. Others think it is not a truth, or they just don't care. I struggle with the idea of God, but I think it is an idea/reality that needs to be contemplated.
The questions were somewhat varied, but many were focused on how someone can think God exists or doesn't exist. I asked a couple of questions that deeply concern me, including "Where is hope. Hope for society and the growth and improvement(s) of society…to go to Jesuit ideals of Magis (more) or (better) and the ideal of cura personalis for a movement and forever." Also, "if the emptiness that people have for purpose is like a balloon or like a milk can, can it expand and decrease without losing shape and substance, or is there a limit that can be less than full and can this space over flow its container." In response to my first question, Pham said that both Religion and other factors give hope and that God and eternal life was the movement and the hope. Duggan said that this was true, but that the movement was our peers pushing us, rather than God. Duggan addressed my second question saying that the emptiness is not empty but a web of different ideas. I replied that spiders destroy their own webs and die in their own webs. Most people laughed at this and the question was dropped. I hope to take this question up further with Duggan later.
I thoroughly enjoyed the debate and hope that other similar debates are held about different subjects and with different professors. I also enjoyed the format and how students attended, even though the event was not required and on a Thursday night, when most students go out. One way I hope to follow up on this debate is to read Dr. Duggan's dissertation that got him thrown out of the Jesuits. I talked to him after the debate and he said he had a copy of it in his office and that I could come by and pick it up. The debate was informative and helpful in giving me more information to continue to mull, so I can make up my own mind.
Haug wrote this piece for COM 210.
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